tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post3537168165102140287..comments2023-12-24T06:13:49.857-05:00Comments on Confessions of a Closet Republican: Islam: The great "Religion of Peace" and its call to Jihad against all non-believersIncognitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09692949516037191969noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-18039626055643743482007-07-30T00:38:00.000-04:002007-07-30T00:38:00.000-04:00Hey Snoopy! Nice to see you're back in the land ...Hey Snoopy! <BR/><BR/>Nice to see you're back in the land of the living! You were gone much longer than the 2 weeks..:-) hope it was fun. Will look forward to checking your new posts.Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09692949516037191969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-36207981212391232672007-07-29T09:53:00.000-04:002007-07-29T09:53:00.000-04:00Great post, Incognito. And the attempt to respond ...Great post, Incognito. And the attempt to respond by "anonymous" is only stressing what is quite clear: that Islam is still living in some time hundreds of years back.<BR/><BR/>And I still expect the usual repartee: we just do not understand the "real" Islam - whatever it means.<BR/><BR/>Cheers and best.SnoopyTheGoonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00920565522498918323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-18799347297671846622007-07-26T19:47:00.000-04:002007-07-26T19:47:00.000-04:00Hello again Eatbees, Thank you for all the links e...Hello again Eatbees, Thank you for all the links etc. I checked them out and will continue to visit them, from time to time. Believe it or not I always try to find the good in everything, and have, on several occasions praised those few brave Muslims who have been critical of the current culture of violence.<BR/><BR/>I actually liked what one of your Morrocan friends said: that it's the Muslims that need to evolve rather than the religion itself. And although I know that there are progressives who promote change, there don't seem to be that many. And, though there are some that seem to be evolving out of the 'dark ages' mentality, there are others who seem to be regressing. As I mentioned above, people are becoming more conservative and that can be lead to problems. religion should be a very personal and private matter and conservative Islam is the polar opposite.<BR/><BR/>I have no problem with how people worship. I am of the belief that there are many paths, but when someone elses religious beliefs begin to infringe upon my freedoms,etc. then I will take issue with that. <BR/><BR/>Well, I wouldn't say most of the violence, but the bulk of it. Yes, we had the IRA violence, but that was centered in Ireland and Britain. The Basque separatists (ETA) Spain. FARC -Colombia. Muslim violence... all over the world, starting in the mid 70s. And until they start copping to it, rather than being in denial or justifying it, there will be no change. <BR/><BR/>I think most people are in denial about the fact that the Arabs/Muslims and their leftist supporters, including some radical Jews believe and desire that Israel be wiped off the map.<BR/><BR/>And I'm always willing to be open. Dialogue is good. I haven't had many Muslims comment on my blog, and you don't really count, as you say you are unaffiliated, but the few that I have had, have been in total denial.<BR/><BR/>You are welcome back, any time.Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09692949516037191969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-43915566567422919312007-07-25T18:18:00.000-04:002007-07-25T18:18:00.000-04:00Incognito, I agree with you that Islam needs to ev...Incognito, I agree with you that Islam needs to evolve as a religion. In fact that is happening. Progressive intellectuals within Islam are doing it. On the popular level, Muslims who live in the West or who like aspects of Western culture are doing it. I'm not Muslim myself (I'm an unaffiliated believer) but I have close friends who wrestle with these questions every day. Respecfully, I hope you'll consider giving them credit for this, rather than generalizing about all Muslims from a few vocal extremists.<BR/><BR/>On my blog I have a post about <A HREF="http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2007/03/16/silent-revolution/" REL="nofollow">Tariq Ramadan</A>, who is exactly the kind of intellectual I'm talking about. He was an adviser to Tony Blair and was offered a teaching position in the U.S., but was denied a visa by the Bush administration. Please read the interview that I link to in my post, or visit his website (also linked). You might also want to check out <A HREF="http://www.islamicamagazine.com/" REL="nofollow">Islamica</A> magazine or the website <A HREF="http://www.ijtihad.org/" REL="nofollow">Ijtihad</A>, which means independent reasoning within Islam. Or see this <A HREF="http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2006/10/14/progressive-islam-conversations/" REL="nofollow">conversation</A> I had with two Moroccan friends about Islam's progressive side.<BR/><BR/>There are many sources for progressive Islam on the web. Please don't think this is just some elaborate cover story put together by Muslims to fool you about the danger of their religion. Reform within Islam is real and it is happening now.<BR/><BR/>About violence in the world, I'm not sure the West is as evolved as you seem to think. Did most of the violence of the 20th century come from Muslim nations? I don't think so. Violence is, sadly, a disease of human nature. Concerning the Palestinians, polls consistently show majority support for a "two-state solution," meaning peace with Israel, despite the hardships of 40 years of Israeli occupation. Even the 2005 vote for Hamas was a vote for clean government, not for confrontation with Israel. President Bush himself recognized this when <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012601009.html" REL="nofollow">commenting</A> on the results. For some perspective on Hamas, check out this <A HREF="http://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/publications/briefing_papers/online/hamasonline.php" REL="nofollow">analysis</A>, "What Lies Beneath Hamas' Rhetoric: What the West Needs to Hear."<BR/><BR/>I appreciate the chance to share with you and your readers a perspective I know you aren't inclined to agree with — but keep an open mind! :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-10556020524101678812007-07-24T22:49:00.000-04:002007-07-24T22:49:00.000-04:00Incog - great post but very frightening! I wonder...Incog - great post but very frightening! I wonder if we will ever come to understand their mindset and culture. <BR/><BR/>Anonymous should post with a name. Commenting on someone's post like that is really rude. This person is in need of counseling for their extreme denial of everything that is real!Missyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04018768293766814480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-38646143834795276672007-07-24T21:39:00.000-04:002007-07-24T21:39:00.000-04:00Ha! In what parallel universe do you live in?More...Ha! In what parallel universe do you live in?<BR/>More tolerant. As I mentioned in my above comment.. Christianity evolved OUT of that era of violence. Islam has regressed. Uhh.. war zones like Afghanistan and Iraq.. okay... how about all the Muslim violence against non-Muslims in Thailand and Indonesia.. how about the bombings in London and Spain, here in the U.S. on 9/11 PRIOR to Afghanistan and Iraq. How about the bombings in Africa.. how about Darfur... blablabla. You are totally deluded, friend. Unfortunately, ,you will probably never come back to read my response.Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09692949516037191969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-13308370882525998372007-07-24T21:15:00.000-04:002007-07-24T21:15:00.000-04:00Islam is far more tolerant than Christianity. Mill...Islam is far more tolerant than Christianity. Millions of Christians survived 1,400 of living under Islam in the Middle East and North Africa. No religious minority survived Christianity in Europe. Muslim and other religious minority in places like Spain and Southern Italy were wiped out. All other religions (except a few Jews) were wiped out (under torture) by Christianity in Europe (and later in places like Americas). As for suicide bombings and violence, you are giving examples from war zones like Afghanistan and Iraq (illegally invaded when Jesus told Bush to invade by lying and kill 600,000 Iraqis). There is no suicide bombings in Qatar or UAE -- they have churches and Hindu temples -- and the murder rate of these countries is far lower than Christian American.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-24228826539121493472007-07-24T19:43:00.000-04:002007-07-24T19:43:00.000-04:00Hello Eatbees. Thank you for your comment.Perhaps...Hello Eatbees. Thank you for your comment.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps the extremist websites don't represent the Muslims, on the whole, and there are obviously some who have the courage to disown those who practice extremism, however, there aren't enough so called 'moderates' stepping up to the plate to condemn the radicals. So we continue to witness the violence that seems part and parcel of the Islamic religion, and therefore makes our judgements based on those hideous actions. How can you expect us to think otherwise? <BR/><BR/>And no-one seems to be emphasizing the Suras that preach tolerance and coexistance. And the Suras I qoute seem more directed at domination rather than survival. 2 extremely different things. <BR/><BR/>Islam has, for the most part always been a religion of aggression.. look back in history and tell me that isn't so. It also seems to be a very contradictory religion, given the Suras of domination and the Sura you quoted "There is no compulsion in religion".<BR/><BR/>And I would agree, that man's interpretation (or misinterpretation) of the various Holy Books is often responsible for perversion of the texts. Sadly so.<BR/><BR/>The problem is, Islam has not evolved as a religion. The Christians had their crusades, but left that behind. And the Muslims, rather than modernize are becoming more conservative, embracing fundamentalism which can lead to extremism. That is the danger. And then the Suras of tolerance are superceded by those advpcating world domination.<BR/><BR/>Would you consider the Palestinians extremists? Because they teach their children to aspire to Jihad and Islamic world domination.Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09692949516037191969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-80313541397239576132007-07-24T18:31:00.000-04:002007-07-24T18:31:00.000-04:00If you go to Muslim extremist websites, you will f...If you go to Muslim extremist websites, you will find Muslim extremism, it goes without saying. Just as on some Christian-oriented websites you will find people saying that Christianity and Islam can't peacefully coexist.<BR/><BR/>There are plenty of Muslims writing in the blogosphere who you wouldn't even know are Muslims, because they don't wear their religion on their sleeve as these extremists do, and they are just as ashamed of their so-called "brothers in faith" as you are bothered by them.<BR/><BR/>The Suras you quote were addressed to Muslims at a time when they were struggling for their very survival against more powerful tribes. Believers were authorized to fight back against those who sought their destruction. To understand the Quran it is important to take into account the historical context of individual Suras. Those who claim that these Suras apply equally in all times and places, are a distinctly minority view within Islam. <BR/><BR/>There are many Suras in the Quran that insist on religious tolerance, coexistence with Christians and Jews, and a "live and let live" attitude. The most famous is probably Sura 2:256 that insists, "There is no compulsion in religion."<BR/><BR/>I would argue that all religions, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and pagan are religions of peace. The goal of religion is to remind us of our connection to the universal and our smallness in relation to it. It is not religion but the ways it is twisted by the human ego that cause violence and strife. Perhaps religion has failed to cure us of our hatred, but why that is so is a philsophical question that is beyond our scope here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-57816370139695896672007-07-24T17:19:00.000-04:002007-07-24T17:19:00.000-04:00KAREN: Thank you! I think it will take a few more...KAREN: Thank you! I think it will take a few more major attacks on western interests before people start to realize what we are up against.<BR/><BR/>DEBBIE: Thanks for the link! I thought it was important to say it in their own words, otherwise people have a tendency to say it's misinterpreted. There are many more in Arabic, Deb, so we just have the few that dare to write in English. I noticed some have been removed for TOS violations. I think there are more that we have no clue about. And that's why it's important that they are visible.<BR/>Unfortunately, unless they modernize and become more secular, it will only get worse.<BR/><BR/>AIS: Thank you very much! Honored to be linked, and I will do the same soon. It is idealogical, but it's also political. There's one of their websites that points that out. That will be part of another post, at some point.<BR/><BR/>I think people are in denial because they don't wnt to believe that evil can exist in a religious form. I even battle with believing that they truly have the right to worship as they please (which they do) and yet knowing theyhave no tolerance for how I worship.<BR/><BR/>I will look forward to your post! If you feel you'd like to link my post, please do. The more people that read what we have to say, the better. Cheers.<BR/><BR/>DD2: Well, that should be interesting. I love how they all think they can solve the problem, when it is like trying to cure a spreading cancer.<BR/><BR/>GRIT: Hey Grit! And yup... exactly what they say. Guess we should use the long form, eh?! ;-) I'll make sure I do, from now on.Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09692949516037191969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-24888481732956779872007-07-24T14:35:00.000-04:002007-07-24T14:35:00.000-04:00Hi I,The confusion in this comes from peoples' ins...Hi I,<BR/><BR/>The confusion in this comes from peoples' insistance on using the short form. The complete saying about Islam is "Islam is the religion of peace, or at least it will be when we finish killing all non-believers." Hope that clears things up ;)<BR/><BR/>the GritAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-56366838363771105252007-07-24T09:57:00.000-04:002007-07-24T09:57:00.000-04:00Last night Barack Hussein Obama said that one of h...Last night Barack Hussein Obama said that one of his first actions in office would be to have a sit-down with Mr. Assad for some tea and cookies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-25327841642152214202007-07-24T04:23:00.000-04:002007-07-24T04:23:00.000-04:00This is an outstanding post. You have managed to a...This is an outstanding post. <BR/><BR/>You have managed to articulate the inner beliefs and ruminations of the radical Islamist and the depth of hatred toward anyone whose beliefs run contrary. <BR/><BR/>I think we in the West are locked in a profound ideological struggle, and in terms of information dissemination within religious ranks, we a losing the war. The coherent religious and ideological position that al-Qa’ida represents, has very strong support within the Muslim world as a whole. Even moderate sediments within Islamist communities that do not fully embrace the al-Qa’ida position adopt a similar world outlook that incorporates much of al-Qa’ida’s narratives and paranoia. <BR/><BR/>What concerns me is that little is understood about what you have written by the wider populace of western societies. It is not something that is going to go away. The widespread presence of extremist views in large minorities among Muslim communities pose acute dilemmas for liberal societies that few within them have yet to face up to. <BR/><BR/>I am working on a post entitled "From radical to liberal islam - is intrinsic change possible?" Here I will discuss whether Muslims residing in the West can change in terms of religious views toward a more civil or westernised form of Islam as a result of their external (western) environmental exposure. Hopefully I will post it within a few days as I am busy with domestics this week. <BR/><BR/>I may post a link to this post of yours on my blog.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I took the liberty of adding "Confessions of a Closet Republican" to my blogroll. Let me know if you have reservations as normally I would have asked first. Kind regards.Ottavio (Otto) Marasco https://www.blogger.com/profile/07813984603766878752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-75016799969867077942007-07-24T00:10:00.000-04:002007-07-24T00:10:00.000-04:00Oh, nice. It is good to point out the actual word...Oh, nice. It is good to point out the actual words so folks can see, read, and then refute. It's also good to find Muslims who blog/write against Islam's evil. There are not many of them, but when I run across one, my heart jumps for joy.<BR/><BR/>The Islam that we see today is evil, there is no other way to describe it. There is no other religion like it. Yes other religions had their violent times and did things they are sorry for now. But we grew, we learned, we turned from those things.<BR/><BR/>Islam has ALWAYS been the way it is, and I don't see any signs of change today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-18428521991208921792007-07-23T23:45:00.000-04:002007-07-23T23:45:00.000-04:00Excellent post, Incog! I wish more would wake up ...Excellent post, Incog! I wish more would wake up and realize the seriousness of Islamofacism. It is the single most important fact facing us and our way of life, yet so many refuse to be concerned.Karen Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12692791436106987353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-12406980834315041322007-07-23T20:51:00.000-04:002007-07-23T20:51:00.000-04:00Thanks Angel, I intend to.And thanks for the artic...Thanks Angel, I intend to.<BR/><BR/>And thanks for the article, Jeremy! I just can't fathom why they support destroyers. So what if Palestinian gunmen were killed. that's 4 less militants in this world.Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09692949516037191969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-88727115166506530292007-07-23T18:48:00.000-04:002007-07-23T18:48:00.000-04:00Excellent stuff. Then there's this from Melanie Ph...Excellent stuff. Then there's this from Melanie Phillips on British media pro-Arab stance....<BR/><BR/>July 23, 2007<BR/>Broken glass<BR/><BR/>In the Telegraph, its fair and balanced Middle East reporter Tim Butcher reports James Wolfensohn, the former head of the World Bank, blaming Israel and America for failing to back his attempts to develop the Palestinian economy after Israel withdrew from Gaza.<BR/><BR/> He even put £300,000 of his own money into a fund to secure Israeli commercial greenhouses in Gaza so they could be transferred to Palestinian farmers. But Israel closed Gaza’s border and halted all exports.<BR/><BR/>But a mere matter of hours after Israel had pulled out of Gaza, the Palestinians destroyed millions of dollars’ worth of greenhouses that the Israelis had left for them to make money from.<BR/><BR/>Butcher also writes:<BR/><BR/> Yesterday, Israel killed four Palestinian gunmen in Gaza, two in a ground assault and two in an air strike against militants launching rockets at its territory. The violence was the worst in Gaza for 10 days.<BR/><BR/>But the Jerusalem Post tells us:<BR/><BR/> Three sisters were found stabbed to death in the Gaza Strip on Sunday, raising suspicion they were killed by relatives because of suspected immoral behavior, a human rights organization said. The three sisters, 16-year-old Nahed Hija and her sisters, 19-year-old Suha and 22-year-old Lina, were found dead from multiple stab wounds, buried in a shallow grave in the central Gaza Strip early Sunday morning, said Hamdi Shakkour of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights. <BR/><BR/>But of course that’s not violence because the Israelis weren’t involved.Jeremy Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02014279463894807064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-67234147111153273342007-07-23T18:45:00.000-04:002007-07-23T18:45:00.000-04:00most excellent Incog!!...holler it from the roofto...most excellent Incog!!...holler it from the rooftops girl...truly a brilliant essay!WomanHonorThyselfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17211851365273181636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-5713761101173829132007-07-23T16:41:00.000-04:002007-07-23T16:41:00.000-04:00PATJ: It is interesting... even in some of these ...PATJ: It is interesting... even in some of these Jihad blogs, when they respond to people calling them on their violence they deny it. It's truly bizarre. It's called being in denial, because, as you put it, they feel justified.. so somehow it makes it okay. Very twisted thinking.<BR/><BR/>MUD: This is after they spread out across various continents, as conquerors themselves.. so, not really justified. It's absolutely 100% religious in its roots. I did a lot of reading (half of which, of course, I could not put in the post). It very clearly states in their religious books the importance of Jihad. <BR/><BR/>DONALD: Thank you, so much.<BR/><BR/>PAN: It really is... I left out a lot.. it really is very scary.Incognitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09692949516037191969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-20498702101857006832007-07-23T11:42:00.000-04:002007-07-23T11:42:00.000-04:00Be afraid, be very afraid!Be afraid, be very afraid!Chris McClure aka Panhandle Poethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18276465051258888541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-7333727561457866352007-07-23T11:07:00.000-04:002007-07-23T11:07:00.000-04:00Excellent post!Excellent post!AmPowerBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18236333181889271910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-5492452439864184552007-07-23T08:11:00.000-04:002007-07-23T08:11:00.000-04:00In one of your past blogs you pointed out that the...In one of your past blogs you pointed out that their region of the world was "conquered" several times by several groups of people. Perhaps their religion stresses their need to be ready to fight and die because of those factors more than religion. Think of what the Russians who became the soviets felt and did because of Napoleon's incursions. I am not making apologies because I depp down feel they need to "put on their bi boy pants and deal with it". Continuing to deal with everything is some old tired way is just not the way the world should work. MUDMUDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00210979052443058111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34133856.post-25883444863906790602007-07-23T07:47:00.000-04:002007-07-23T07:47:00.000-04:00after reading some of the responses on the "muslim...after reading some of the responses on the "muslim speak" forum it is so easy for them, the muslims, to justify their actions. since they have a perception, distorted as it may be, of themselves being wronged. whether by israel, the west etc.... no matter how much they claim to be a religion of peace, they have a chip on their shoulder, as it were, leading to revenge and thus "saturating" the world with their message.Pat Jenkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18142174423986806144noreply@blogger.com