Monday, February 12, 2007

Liberal hatred, hubris and paranoid ad hominem attacks - ad nauseum

Well, well. What a hoot! I had no idea there were people out there trolling for Republicans, neo-cons, non-liberals and the likes. My blog was discovered by one such person in a google search for "anti-semit" (sic), which led me to the following forum: Democratic Warrior.

My post equating anti-semitism with anti-Israel rhetoric was linked to the following thread: 'Revelations Exposing Possible NeoCon Boards. Trolling and Infiltration.

Rememberearth says in her post: (my comments are in red)

more and more (I think she's referring to *gasp*conservatives, and our perceived increasing ranks)

To criticize Israel and their policies, you're automatically labeled anti-semitic.Here's from a republican blog;
and here's an article from the LRB; here's the thing, if we disagree with policies of a country, its ridiculous that we are labeled bigots, bottom line. The whole spin is disgusting to say the least, and reflects the same bs rhetoric of being "un american" just because we disagree with the president. in closing, I'm sick of it. Sick of being labeled because I have an opinion. (And you're not labeling *me* for having an opinion? Am I not allowed to have opinions, whereas you are?)

Out of curiosity I looked at some other threads in the forum and noticed some major bashing of a guy they claim is a rightwing troll on the 'John Edwards for Prez blog'. There were some links to this supposed 'troll's' posts, so I moseyed on over to see for myself and was surprised to find nothing indicative of his rightwing leanings, other than a comment about the futility of impeaching Bush. I was truly interested in why they were so vehemently against this fellow, so decided to register so I could ask why they found his posts so offensive. He sounded like a Democrat to me, other than the impeachment issue. However, for some reason, my email was rejected. I found that a little strange, so I checked out the Terms of Use, and although they are too numerous to list here (20 in total), I found the following 2 very interesting:

19) This is a board for Democrats! If a member is a troll, they will be banned immediately, and their email address and IP number will be posted on the website! (I'm guessing my IP addy was forwarded to the Admin and that was why I was rejected) A troll is defined as someone who signs up to insult members, disrupt the board, or attempt to recruit to organizations outside of the Democratic Party. (Which is totally within their rights, but seems a little odd and paranoid to me. What
about those of us who have no intention of doing the above, who would genuinely like to engage in a civil exchange of ideas? And posting someone's IP address, what does this accomplish? I find that very mean-spirited.)

1) Do not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, racist, hateful, threatening, or that violate any laws. Please use good judgment when choosing user names, avatars, or images to post, and do not attempt to bypass the word filter. It is there for a reason. Inappropriate content will be removed without notice, including, but not limited to: any and all bigotry regarding race, gender, geographic location, sexual orientation, ethnicity/nationality, religion, and political party affiliation. (I find this one even more interesting, considering there were a slew of very disparaging, hateful comments about Republican individuals or at least, people they think are covert Republicans etc.)

The following is posted at the beginning of the Terms of Use:

This is not your typical political forum. We are proud of the fact that
despite of our growing numbers, we continue to remain extremely friendly to both new members and regular visitors, guests and lurkers.
(Not *that* friendly if you HAVE to be a Democrat, and unable to post unless you are. But, it's their sandbox so they are entitled to pick and choose their playmates, but please don't claim you are *extremely* friendly when you are being anything but inclusive.)

It appears that Miss Democrat thang spent a lot of time searching for republicans posting on anti-semitism issues, because I googled as she did: "anti-semit" and gave up after 30 plus pages of mostly foreign links. Not sure on what page she found me, but find me she did.
And I still contend that those who are virulently anti-Israel, if they really search deep within themselves, will find they are anti-semitic. Anti-semitism is alive and well and exists everywhere. A blogger on this site posted a short list of just some of the anti-semitic acts perpetrated on Jews in 2006. The list is very long.

I actually find all this cloak and dagger, paranoid thinking rather amusing. One person on Democratic Warriors posted on this same thread: "Liberal Democrats that happen to be Jewish have fallen into the trap. Or are they neo-con infiltrators...." Stated with total seriousness. What I find sad is that their excessive anger and yes, hatred, of all things conservative (even those of us who happen to be moderate) clouds their thinking (as I have oft repeated) and their ability to be civil. I may call someone an idiot but I have never heaped any other derogatory epithets on the Democrat Party, whereas the following are liberally used: Repukes, Repigs, Repugs, Dipshits. Not terribly offensive on their own, but in context, not so nice. I would like to think that we are all entitled to our opinions, but apparently not, if it's not in keeping with the liberal mindset. I welcome any opposing comments, as long as it is done with respect.

As for "Remeberearth": "The Lady doth protest too much, methinks." Wm Shakespeare's Hamlet


Purist said...

Anti-semitism is a phrase that is bandied around far too loosely. It is far to easy to quash a sensible debate on the Middle East by brandishing someone an anti-semite.

It is so often used as a generalisation that it loses all meaning. Be more careful with it.

Blazing Cat Fur said...

Legitimate criticism of Israeli policy does not equate to anti-semitism. Not all anti-zionists are anti-semites however all anti-semites are anti-zionist. The issue of anti-semitism is of growing concern even to the progressive left where it is most prevalent, and it is the left (especially within academia) where anti-semitism is most virulent. Check this blog out, Terry Glavin is a progressive, his leftist credentials are impeccable yet he is being pilloried by fellow leftists for daring to raise the issue of anti-semitism, check out the comments.
Links - Nick Cohen Strikes Back At the "Smear-Job" Lie -
The Nick Cohen piece links to an article at the Tyee that he wrote Solidarity whenever -check out the comments at both.
My favourite insult of Terry by a fellow leftist is "Gatekeeper to the Ziocon False-Flag Hegemony of the Bolivarian Republic of Canada".
Terrys blog is here if links do not work.

Anonymous said...

I guess I am too liberal (gasp,gasp, I said the word) in some area and too conservative in others. I think the Constitution did a right fine job in telling future generations what Government should do. There are provisions for change because no government or technology stands still forever. I stand agast at the spending our "Conservative" Government has done for the last few years. (Fiscal Conservative I am, I am) I think our Government needs to stand up and tell people to get busy and get educated and you will do better in life. Wait for the Government to help make you better and you will find yourself eating Cheese in large wheels and wondering why you don't get better commodities. I grew up poor and worked hard to be a success and we are rich in any standard. We aren't millionairs but have everything we need and most of what we want. It is only because two poor kids got together and worked our way through college and worked hard to move up in our jobs. This has been the dream of most of the poor people I know. Ask any owner of a 7-11 why they work 60 hours a week and they will tell you it is to be a success. I don't hate anyone but I don't love those too darned lazy to get up and work hard to be a success. MUD aka Dennis Petty posting as

Dr. Dawg said...

And I still contend that those who are virulently anti-Israel, if they really search deep within themselves, will find they are anti-semitic.

Why the double standard? If I am critical of the US, does that make me anti-Christian? If I don't like Japanese foreign policy, does that make me a racist, and anti-Shintoist to boot? Why does treating Israel like any nation-state, and being critical of its activities in the West Bank, Gaza and, more recently, Lebanon, constitute anti-Semitism? The latter is just a smear, a new McCarthyism in which criticism of Israel is deflected by calling her critics bigots.

I actually find all this cloak and dagger, paranoid thinking rather amusing.

Right on. Sometimes a critic of Israel is just a critic of Israel.

Incidentally, the "anti-semit" search doesn't require a [sic] from you. It's a partial keyword to find "anti-Semite," "anti-Semitic" and anti-Semitism."

Incognito said...

Thank you everyone. I appreciate all your comments, but in this case, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Dictionary definition of Anti-Semite is "a person who discriminates against or is prejudiced or hostile toward Jews." Now I will concede there are varying degrees of prejudice, and not every anti-semite has the desire to desecrate a Synagogue or cause physical harm to a Jew, but I have friends who make derogatory comments about them, and to me that is a form of anti-semitism; mild, but prejudice all the same.

And I still would venture to say that anyone who does not believe that Israel has the right to exist is anti-semitic. And as you quoted me, Dr. Dawg I did emphasize "virulently" anti-Israel (i.e. wiped off the map). Most people critical of the Israeli government policy are unwilling to admit that the Palestinians are equally culpable, if not more so, for the problems in that area, and they believe that Israel should not exist. They are blinded to the fact that the reason a peace treaty has never been brokered, is because the Muslims have no desire to live side by side with the Jews. And no-one seems to care that there has been carnage in Israel, as well and that the U.N. created the State of Israel, in the first place. But I've already discussed this in past posts.
And I don't see the U.S. as exclusively "Christian", so I don't really agree with the comparison. And as for Lebanon, who started that recent skirmish? Not the Israelis.

I could understand if there was equal criticsm for both the Israelis and the Palestinians, but most are critical of Israel alone. And the Palestinians are anything but innocent victims.

Blazing Cat Fur said...

I agree with your observations whole heartedly CR. By the way you asked about a definition for dhimmi:

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, is part of the law that global jihadists are laboring to impose everywhere, ultimately on the entire human race.


Purist said...

I don't think that pulling the dictionary definition of anti-Semitic is a great idea, Incognito. In fact, it's by far the wrong thing to use here. Words like these have hidden but obvious connotations that no dictionary definition can do justice to.

Of course anyone who wants Israel 'wiped off the map' is anti-semetic. It's so obvious I can't see why you even said it. But in the context of what you were saying in this post, I don’t see rememberearth being that virulent, so why say it? You seem to be wanting people to be this virulent so that you can have something to moan about.

I think what the real problem here is that you seem to bunch people into either the Democrat or Republican camps, and don’t leave much room for any middle ground.

Quoting Hamlet here is a rather High School thing to do, whatever the context. I'm quite ashamed that you felt you had to reference the quote - is that what you think of your readership?

I'm sure you'll realise one day that people who like quotations love meaningless generalisations.

Purist said...

Oh, and the 'skirmish' you talk about? 2 kidnapped soldiers - a 'skirmish?'

I know Israel didn't start it, but even their staunch alies had muffled outbursts at the force Israel used in response.

975,000 Lebanese displaced. 300,000 Israelis displaced. 1200 killed (75% cicilian).

Unexploded cluster bombs making partsof southern Lebanon and Northern Israel still uninhabitable.

Israel blockading Lebanon even after UN resolutions restricting this?

Come on, just becasue Israel is the only leiberal democracy in the Middle East it doesn't mean they can get away with murder.

Incognito said...

Thank you BCF!